Safeguarding Vulnerable Groups Bill - 2nd Reading

Speech by Annette Brooke MP delivered to House of Commons on Mon 19th Jun 2006

I congratulate the hon. Member for Blackpool, North and Fleetwood (Mrs. Humble) on raisingthose important points about military training establishments. I, too, look forward to hearing the replies from the Under-Secretary of State for Education and Skills, the hon. Member for Gloucester (Mr. Dhanda). I also thank the Minister for Children and Families for her clear explanation of the Bill.

I welcome the Bill, and I should like to place on record the Liberal Democrats' broad support for the measures that it proposes. It is vital that we increase the protection of the most vulnerable members of our society. I should declare that I have not had the advantage of seeing the embargoed Ofsted report, so I shall be unable to comment on it in my speech.

Reaching this point today seems to have involved an extraordinarily long process, following the tragedies in Soham and the subsequent Bichard inquiry and its recommendations. The former Secretary of State for Education and Skills made statements to the House on 12 and 19 January, while stories in the press centred on cases in which it was revealed that Ministers had made decisions that certain individuals should not be placed on List 99. One of the cases was in Bournemouth, so there was inevitably a great deal of press coverage in my local area. As I reflect on that media frenzy, it seems clear that the outcome of this legislation must be a system in which the public can have confidence.

The then Secretary of State recognised the necessity for specialist advice for herself in this area, as well as the need for training at all levels-for example, for school governing bodies when making appointments. The proposals for an independent barring board are generally welcome. Its independence, and the fact that Ministers will not be involved in discretionary decisions made by the board, are also welcome and reflect a fundamental change from the present system. The need for widespread relevant training and, even more, for a whole culture of vigilance regarding risks to children and vulnerable adults is vital if we are truly to improve protection.

The National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children has made the point that safeguarding is everyone's responsibility, and that was endorsed by the Minister today. Everyone needs to work with that in mind. Age Concern England has stated that public awareness initiatives will be important in informing the public of the existence of the new processes. It is shocking to read examples of the abuse perpetrated day after day on children, older people and those with learning and other disabilities. Some of the examples in the Help the Aged briefing include financial and physical abuse, and remind us of the extent to which many types of abuse remain unreported and undocumented. Campaigns by the NSPCC to encourage children to speak out, and reports from ChildLine, underline the need for vigilance.

I am the chair of the all-party parliamentary group on Voice UK, which aims to bring to the attention of Members of both Houses of Parliament the needs of people with learning disabilities who have experienced crime or abuse, and to discuss redress and reform. We would certainly welcome any Members who wish to join our discussions. I recognise that the Bill does not cover family and personal relationships, but I hope that it will contribute to real changes in our society. To that end, I look forward to working on it on a constructive cross-party basis.

It was ironic that when the then Secretary of State was placed under such pressure earlier this year, consultation on these new proposals was already well under way. However, time is passing, and I would like the Under-Secretary to give us an updated timeline for the projected introduction of all the proposed measures, and tell us how any interim measures will impact on recruitment for September.

The Minister for Children and Families confirmed earlier that Criminal Records Bureau checks are now mandatory for all newly appointed members of the school work force. I welcome that move, as it is long overdue. Will the Under-Secretary clarify whether work will be allowed to commence pending the completion of a CRB check? In response to a parliamentary question on this issue, I was told that in 2005 the average time for an enhanced disclosure was 31.5 days.

I am worried that a possible upsurge in demand for checks will mean that schools could face difficulties with late teacher appointments. At the very least, clarity is needed, along with a statement on the capacity of the CRB to deal with the checks. I well recall the fiasco when the Government had to retract their requirement for CRB checks for teachers when they were first introduced several years ago, and I am a little worried that we might be heading down that route again as a result of this very welcome initiative. Has sufficient provision been put in place for the CRB? What action will the Under-Secretary take to ensure that it will have sufficient capacity for its enhanced functions as the new procedures are put in place? It will certainly be required to do a great deal more than it does now. It has already been pointed out that the CRB has made some dreadful mistakes, and we shall need to reflect on this matter in Committee.

I should also like to comment on what appears to have been some very successful cross-party working in the other place, and to put on record our thanks to Lord Adonis, the Minister there, who was so responsive to the discussions that took place at all stages. Perhaps we can look forward to similar levels of responsiveness in this House as we probe some of the outstanding issues, mainly on detail. I have to confess, however, that if that were to be the case, it would be an agreeable surprise.

This is the fourth Bill with which I have been involved in this Session. Ministers have come and gone, but I welcome the new Under-Secretary of State to his position. I also thank him for his recent courtesy in meeting me, and others involved with the Bill- [ Interruption.] I can hear by the response from Members on the official Opposition Benches that they agree that the success of Opposition parties in persuading the Government to accept amendments has been rather limited, to put it mildly.

Tim Loughton (East Worthing and Shoreham) (Con): All talk, no trousers.

Annette Brooke: From a sedentary position, I am getting some support on that point. However, we are optimistic that we will secure some important amendments.

As with the other Bills I have served on, there is great reliance on future regulations and the issuing of guidance. I welcome the information notes already published, but inevitably, there are outstanding concerns about many of the issues covered, further areas of promised guidance and questions as to why certain matters cannot be included in the Bill. I concur entirely with the way in which the hon. Member for Basingstoke (Mrs. Miller) expressed those concerns.

There will be a great deal of detail to cover in Committee, so for now, I too would like to highlight concerns in a number of key areas. First, I want to consider the principle relating to the creation of the lists and the operation of the IBB. As we have heard, the Bill originally proposed two quite separate lists-one for people who pose a risk to adults and one for people who pose a risk to children. However, in the light of the important evidence supplied by the Ann Craft Trust that one in five of those who sexually abused older people had also sexually abused children, I was pleased that the Government proposed an amendment that the IBB should have an automatic duty to consider someone for both lists. I am not sure whether the amendment adds up to automatic cross-referencing. We will have to tease that out.

As we know, there are four types of behaviour that may or may not, or must, require inclusion on the barred list. Those include cases where there has been a caution or a conviction, which may result in automatic inclusion, or inclusion subject to representation, and those where there is not a conviction or a caution, but the basis is behaviour and risk of harm.

Specifying the precise types of behaviour that will result in automatic inclusion and inclusion subject to consideration of representations is reserved for secondary legislation. Concern has been expressed that automatic inclusion will not allow any representation to be made, and is exempt from the appeal process in clause 4. Liberty suggests that the absolute nature of the bar might raise issues under the European convention on human rights. I shall be interested in the Minister's comments on that.

There are two issues here, which have a compound effect that concerns me: the automatic bar without representation and the limited parliamentary scrutiny offered to us of which offences will be included on the respective lists. I understand that the proposed list of offences will not be amendable, even through the affirmative resolution procedure. At some time, we shall therefore have to vote for or against a whole list. As we are all so concerned about the issues, it is clear that we would have to vote for the whole list even if we were worried about one or two offences on it. That, together with the lack of a right of appeal on the automatic bar, gives me cause for concern.

On the other types of behaviour that can lead to an entry on the barred list, the IBB will have greater discretion. That is clearly appropriate, but as we have heard before, it relies on soft information. There is a balance between information that should be passed on and that which perhaps should not. In the Ian Huntley case, data had not been stored. Obviously, we can look back on the tragedy of that information not being passed on, and something not being picked up that should have been. On the other hand, should we pass on, for example, information about a teacher which might clearly be established as malicious, or is it up to the IBB to do the sifting or weeding-or whichever term hon. Members want to use?

It is important to establish the procedures. Who should be passing information on to the IBB? The police and social services, we assume. Will there be a duty on public offices to inform the IBB of revocation of appointeeship or attorneyship due to abuse? There are a lot of issues to consider.

With reference to risk of harm, there are clearly issues about the precise criteria, and I am pleased that the Government are committed to publishing guidance in this area, but will the IBB publish any criteria that it establishes, thus ensuring transparency, openness and clarity, and also reference to any risk assessment model that it uses?

We welcome the Government amendment that widened the right of appeal beyond a point of law to include the ability to appeal on the finding of fact. I am not clear whether an appeal to the tribunal may be made on the basis of facts not available to the IBB at the time of the original decision. I would be grateful for clarification.

Like other Members, I am concerned about the lack of definitions of certain terms in the Bill. The four obvious ones are "frequent", "occasional", "harm" and "incidental". I want to refer to the Government's information note 1(iv), as I find some of the sentences there quite the reverse of reassuring. One states:

"The approach that has been adopted in relation to these expressions is that they will take their normal meaning...Broadly speaking we believe that the terms should be interpreted in the following ways...we broadly consider anything more than once a month or any contract that lasts longer than a week to be 'frequent'".

That is very imprecise and, I suggest, difficult to apply. I quite understand the need for flexibility, but this could lead to serious consequences.

We have already heard of the example of the short-term play scheme, perhaps operating for five days. I might ask the Minister for Children and Families, while she is still here, about a crèche that operates for less than two hours a day, perhaps on four successive days. I would be concerned about what could happen over that period. I am sorry to have made that particular point, but as people know, I have a concern about crèches that operate for less than two hours a day.

Moving on to the definition of "harm", the information note states:

"'Harm' should take its normal meaning for a range of reasons specified".

Paragraph 26 states:

"In both these cases we believe that 'harm' should take its normal, commonsense meaning so that a special definition is not required on the face of the Bill. We are clear that the normal meaning of the word covers our original intentions for the scheme."

The Government might be quite satisfied about that, but I feel that Opposition Members are not.

For example, will "harm" include withholding the personal expenses allowances in a care home? That is not clear. Will it include definitions based on retaining the dignity of older people, which the Government are concerned about in a general sense? I could make much more of that, but I have probably made the crucial points that I want to make. I do not think that that is good enough, and I am sure that many workers in this sphere will not think it good enough either.

I have a concern about consistency for children and vulnerable adults, particularly in the realm of controlled activity and regulated activity. We have had some good examples already, such as the day centre. I concur that, for a local authority-run day centre, for example, there is a case for a full vetting and barring scheme.

I have already mentioned some of my concerns about further education colleges. Those concerns remain. I asked a parliamentary question about checks by the Criminal Records Bureau on people in further education colleges. What would happen when a young person entered the working environment, not just for work experience? The answer I received did not reassure me at all. I hope that the Minister will tell me now exactly how the new system will affect those attending further education colleges, and how the existing system affects a range of young people who are involved in a number of activities, and might be based primarily in schools.

A housing support worker recently came to my surgery. That person was doing excellent work, giving a great deal of support to a couple with particular difficulties related to mental health conditions, and meeting them probably once a month. I would expect the vetting and barring scheme to come into effect in such cases of fairly regular contact. That is no reflection on the person who came to see me, because I was very impressed by the level of support being given, but I feel that the Bill ignores one aspect of vulnerability.

All the different categories and definitions could well cause much confusion to employers, organisations, employees, parents and others. The National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children gives the example of a receptionist in a dentist's surgery, who could be employed even if on the barred list, but points out that employers are responsible for ensuring that extra safeguards exist. That was also mentioned by the hon. Member for Basingstoke. We need to know how such arrangements will be monitored. I do not think that the introduction of extra criminal offences is the answer.

I shall not say much about the direct payments system, because it was dealt with extensively in the other place and has also been mentioned today. It is difficult for the Government to achieve the right balance. Carers who have already been burdened have been frightened away as new regulations have been introduced. They have not been prepared to continue, and become involved in the direct payments system. It is important for us to retain our great army of loyal helpers, but we need equality of protection. There should be more than an expectation that local authorities should inform potential direct payment recipients of the vetting and barring scheme; authorities should have a duty to give everyone the opportunity, without the burden necessarily being involved.

I welcome the commitment given by the Government in the other place that those under 18 who commit an offence will never be barred automatically without the right to representation.

Mr. Andrew Turner: Does the hon. Lady really think that one of the murderers of Mary-Ann Lenehan, who was under 18 when that appalling crime was committed, should not automatically be barred from working with children?

Annette Brooke: I would expect that person to be barred, but I think that as a general principle it is better for the needs of those under 18 to be assessed, and for the whole case to be assessed. I support the right to representation, but I would expect someone in a case like that to end up on the list of those automatically barred. It is a question of the route that is taken. I support the right to representation because with some offences, treatment will be possible. There is evidence of the effectiveness of therapeutic services. Again, that is a matter for the discretion of the IBB, and the type of offence involved will affect the exercising of that discretion.

I spoke at length about the need for therapeutic services during the passage of the Sexual Offences Act 2003. The NSPCC is currently campaigning for the provision of therapeutic counselling for the abused. We should bear in mind the fact that those who have been abused may become abusers themselves.

I have a constituency case, which I have mentioned before, involving a couple who have moved into my constituency; their son has been in prison for many years, and will probably never come out. At the age of 14 he was found guilty of a relatively minor offence. His parents paid for assessments, because they were not automatically provided, and according to those assessments he posed no danger, but tragically, at 19 he went on to kill someone. It is possible that therapeutic services would not have made a difference in his case, in which event he would still be on the barred list, but it is just possible that the murder could have been prevented, and tragedy for two families avoided, if the treatment had been given early enough.

I am worried about the complexity of the new scheme, and about how the details can be conveyed to people. Communication will require much more than information packs and assurances that information is available; there will have to be a great deal of signposting, and a strategy for spreading the information among those who need it. Training, too, will be necessary. I am also worried about the costs-have they been fully assessed?-and about whether the CRB will be able to take on all its new functions.

Finally, I am worried about the lack of positive measures in the Bill. The Minister may say that it focuses on vetting and barring arrangements, but I believe that it should include further measures to guarantee wider outcomes. The Minister said that safety and protection would depend on robust judgments, sound processes and competent personal responses, but we need a general approach that will improve the current position. The Ofsted report will prove relevant to that. We need a package of measures alongside the Bill. I understand that an accreditation scheme operates in Northern Ireland, and that, too, may be relevant.

We must accept that children and vulnerable adults will always experience occasional contact with those who have offended in some way. As others have pointed out, it will always be difficult to check workers coming here from abroad. Indeed, it will probably be impossible to check them to the same extent. That is why we need an overall embracing of the principles that we all want a safer society and we need people to react in certain ways, always thinking about the need to protect vulnerable children and adults.

I therefore ask the Minister to consider what else can be put in place alongside the Bill, so that it is not, as the hon. Member for Basingstoke put it, another series of measures that will not be implemented properly. To make it work-and I want it to work-we need something else: we need the Government to give strong leadership.

Link to full debate: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmhansrd/cm060619/debtext/60619-0547.htm#06061927000083